From portfolio reviews to happy hour, we’re talking networking on this episode of Workbook Radio.
Workbook Regional Rep Heidi Goverman talks networking with brand visionary Shauna Bigby Davis, senior art producer Jessica Mirolla, art & print producer Suzee Barrabee, creative director Glenn Batkin, and senior photo producer Kenneth Zane.
Heidi asks the panel who takes meetings.
HG: “Do you guys take meetings?”
SBD: “Yeah. But not nearly as often.“
HG: “Okay.”
SBD: “And I would do it in a group setting to bring the entire creative team around somebody. And then what I would typically do is say …, we typically try to do these once-a-month kind of deal. And we’re going to invite people back to back to back. And we’re going to take an afternoon to do that. Or we’ll invite a rep who can then showcase a lot of people at one time. What we’re trying to do is [in a] sort of chunk.”
GB: “Yeah, exactly the same. As much as I would like to sit, because I love photography as a passion, and again it would never be ten minutes, it would be an hour. Unfortunately, there isn’t that time in the day so very often I’ll say, ‘Get them the list of portfolio reviews.’ Or breakfast, or they do them once a month at a lot of agencies that I work at, and they allow up to 15 people to leave work out. So, the work doesn’t get shown for just ten minutes or an hour, sometimes it can sit around for a day or a few days. And I try to say that’s great because you get 20, 30 art directors. They’re going to come by and look at it when they can. And it’s usually in a very conspicuous place so you can’t help but pass it. And art directors can’t help themselves, and they’ll wander. It might be the day that you dropped it off, it might be two days later.”
HG: “So, is that a realistic action item? To say ‘Hey, what’s your day? Can I come in that day?’ Would that be a realistic thing for a photographer to say to you?”
GB: “I don’t know so much to me, but it would certainly be to producers and art buyers. Generally, they set that up. I mean, I used to do that because I love photography, so I try to give them space on the walls and a chance to actually talk to the whole creative department, you know, once a month. But that’s only a dozen people, because it’s once a month. It’s better to try and get lobbed into the bigger group, which they have twice a month usually a lot in the agencies, and it allows people to look at it more than once.”
Shawna says why you can trust your art will be seen if you leave it at an agency portfolio review.
SBD: “To be honest, most of your creative teams are introverts, and they don’t want to talk to the actual photographer. (panel laughing) They don’t want to talk to people, much less a photographer! And a lot of that is because of expectation. They feel like ‘oh, well now, like I’m ingratiated to give this job, to call them next,’ and they don’t like to feel that expectation. A lot of times they’ll run away from that opportunity to meet up. They absolutely do want you to leave the books behind. So they can peruse it, so they can appreciate it, but they don’t have to speak to anybody. Not everybody wants that.”
HG: ” Not everyone is a talker? No way!”
Heidi brings up the art of asking “them” questions at your next networking function.
HG: “When we are at the bar and so on, instead of coming up and giving you their elevator pitch, it’s better to get “them” based questions. “Them” being you guys (indicates to the panel) like, ‘Where are you from? What’s the hardest part of your job? Which one of the seven dwarves are you?’ right?”
SBD: “Right. Well, everyone’s favorite topic is themselves, right? So if you ask “them”- based questions, then you’re going to illicit a conversation. But if you just go up and start telling them about you, you’re probably not going to get very far.”
HG: “And all the capabilities you have at your studio…”
SBD: “Right.”
Had a great time networking? Heidi asks the panel who benefits from a reminder in a follow-up email?
HG: “You ask the “them”- based question and then you and I are having the greatest conversation ever. Do I bring it up when I contact you again? ‘Hey, just a little reminder. I was that crazy person that was talking about…’ Is that helpful, or do you just want to [get to the email promo]?”
SBD: “I think that’s really interesting. I think it really depends on you. I am a rememberer of people. I take great pride in remembering people and their names and the conversations that I’ve had with people. So when somebody brings it back up to me it [feels] insulting. Like I didn’t care enough to remember you. That’s my personal take. It’s not that bothersome. Know that if I’ve spent time with you and we’ve had a moment, I remember it. “
HG: “Glen you were nodding. Yes?”
GB: “I’m probably the opposite.”
SBD: “Ah!”
JM: “I am too.”
HG: “So please do remind you.”
GB: “Yeah. It’s only because like an email is including everything in your life, and business as well (if it’s a personal email). Therefore, it would be almost impossible to remember every single thing. It’s not if I see it and go, ‘Remember when we talked? When I dressed up as a clown?’ Of course I’m going to remember that.”
HG: “‘Remember when you complimented my shirt, last minute? And I directed you to the room…’”
GB: “Yeah. I’m going to remember it all.”
HG: “’And then we became best friends.’”
GB: “Well, I don’t remember that.”
HG: “That’s because it never happened! (Panel laughs.) I was going try and sell it! Jessica, you were nodding too. Where are you on this?”
JM: “Oh, it would be great to have a reminder. I mean I usually remember but it’s nice to just sort of…You know, if I’m in my workplace or it’s out of context, I’ll sometimes forget.”
HG: “[Ken and Suzee] you two both nodded too.”
SB: “A reminder is great. I think we have moments and if you remind me I will remember you. Even at [an event like this] we meet a lot of people. Just a little reminder to me is really helpful.”
After you’ve connected, do you send your regular promo or a more personalized email piece? Heidi asks Glen.
HG: “So, if somebody you’ve interacted with, like we had a portfolio review and I think you’re awesome, you think I’m awesome, and I want to follow up with you. Do you want to be on my regular promo list, or do you want me to be more specifically “Hi, Glen. Remember when?”? I mean that was terrible, but you know what I’m saying.”
GB: “I mean, if I’ve worked with that person, I obviously love the work. So, there’s no question I’d like to stay in touch and know the next thing the person is doing, even if it has nothing to do with what I’m doing.”
HG: “Right. I mean like, if you’ve met somebody you like at a portfolio review and they’re going to follow up with you. Do you want them to make that personal connection like ‘hey, we met?’ Or do you want to be on their promo list? Or do you want to be both?”
GB: “Probably both.”
HG: “Probably both. Okay. Fair enough.”
Beyond Instagram, Heidi asks if networking with a buyer in person is an invitation to additional social connects?
HG: “When you’re meeting somebody at the bar late tonight at the Palm Springs Photo Festival, is that a moment for you guys where they say, ‘Hey, let’s connect on social?’ Two of you said Facebooks is [not open] and that’s fair and that’s fine. But I think that is an important question, because you guys do have personal space in that regard, and it is so business for them in terms of social media. So LinkedIn’s cool? Who said that? You, Shawna? So LinkedIn’s really the right answer.”
SBD: “Yeah.”
JM: “Yep.”
HG: “Right?”
GB: “Absolutely.”
SBD: “Instagram’s great.”
SB: “It’s funny. I don’t always like getting messaged through LinkedIn.”
SBD: “Oh I don’t enjoy being… don’t message me! (panel laughing)”
HG: (Joking) “Follow to me on LinkedIn, but don’t speak to me!”
GB: “Don’t look at me!”
KZ: “It’s hard to navigate [LinkedIn] on your iPhone too. I’ll run into people saying, ‘Hey, I sent you a message 6 months ago, you never go back to me.’”
HG: “Well, I just need to apologize to [Ken] because that’s how I got in touch with you.”
KZ: “Somehow, I got yours!”
HG: “Sorry about that!”
To finish up, Heidi asks what is too much of a good thing once you’ve connected to a buyer on social.
HG: “What’s the stuff we should not be over zealous about? You know?”
SBD: “Yes.”
HG: “Don’t comment?”
SBD: “Honestly, I don’t mind the occasional comment. I post like maybe once a month. I’m not very good at this [posting]. I don’t enjoy it. But when people are, as soon as I post, and they’re there with a heart and a comment on every single thing that I post? It kind of weirds me out a little bit.”
JM: “Or it’s your mom, which is fine. She can like everything.” (Laughing)
SBD: “Yeah.”
HG: “Yeah, my mom so does not know how to use Instagram…”
(panel laughing)
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