On this episode of Workbook Radio, podcaster/photographer Daniel Bedell continues his interview with production duo Tropico Photo. Daniel talks to Michelle Norris and Forest Aguar about how they split the work as a duo, as well as how they keep shaping their creative voice.
DB: “Can you talk a little bit more about that idea of partnership and pay and rates and splitting? Because I can imagine. So I have a friend who’s been chatting with me a little bit lately about some sort of collaboration; I can see him – I think he’ll listen to this episode…really interested in what working as a duo looks like. I can imagine one of the fears is, ‘Okay I’m getting the same jobs, but now I’m only getting fifty percent of the pay because I’m splitting it.’ Do you guys, are you able to charge higher because you say, ‘Hey, you’re getting more than just a photo service here?’ Or do you find that you are competing for the same job and splitting the same pay as maybe you did before?”
FA: “A little bit of both. We are competing against single photographers sometimes whose rates we can’t literally double. But we do ask for more than what a single photographer would be. I also think we bring more to the table, and we make that very clear. Another thing we talked about initially was maybe we’ll make slightly less than working by ourselves, but the fact we’re able to produce more and work at a faster rate because we’re splitting all the work and not getting burnt out on it means maybe in the short term we might make slightly less money, but in the long term we’re making more. [This is] on a purely economic level.”
MN: “I also think as we have been around for longer, have some bigger jobs, a little bit more notoriety, it is easier for us to charge more and basically pitch it, as we’re not trying to pitch the budget as often. That’s definitely not what this is, but we really think you’ll get something more exciting and special out of it if you go with us. It all sort of speaks to that same point I was making about having more of an identity through our cohesive art direction/ styling. We’re able to guarantee you a certain look for the whole production, and there are times when I think in advertising you’re cherry picking these people to be parts of the team, but then it creates a project that doesn’t necessarily reflect any of their work because it’s a melding. Sometimes it’s really great. But it’s nice for us, even on larger productions, to be on calls with the set designer and wardrobe and everyone ahead of time to express what the vision is for the whole shoot and where we’re coming from.
“So I think over time we’ve been able to charge more for that sort of experience. I think eventually, as we gain more notoriety, we will be able to charge even a little bit more. I also think what Forrest is saying is true. You’re able to take more jobs because one person is retouching after a job, and the other one is able to respond to these inquires and set up meetings and put together decks. And pitches you really wouldn’t be able to do unless you were externalizing the retouching, in which case, you’re not making that money. So everything is like a Catch-22. We found it really sustainable to work together. And one thing we also love about it is we love to travel, and working as a team makes it so normally, if you are a couple in two different professions, you’re not able to get all the same time off to do these trips and stuff. Our vacation time ends up being the exact same time, so it makes it a lot easier for us to work in a way where we’re really on when we’re at home and we’re working together, and we can take time off and completely be away from it.”
FA:” Yes, it’s an entire lifestyle. We write off all of our travel, and we shoot the whole time we’re traveling. Whether it’s personal project, paid gig, something we can sell after as artwork, or as editorial, everything is going toward the company. I think it really helps that it’s our entire lifestyle, and also our entire business, all dialed in and roped into one.”
MN: “And recently on a couple of jobs we had, we’ve actually used the other person as a figure or a model in shots, per the client’s request. But that’s another sort of thing we’re able to bring to the table. For a travel job especially, we can travel really minimally, and we don’t need to hire a model or another person to come. But then you can also charge a little bit more because we’re basically covering all your bases and self-styling in some ways. It all sorts itself out.”
DB: “One of the things I was curious about when I looked at your work is that to me is it is very distinct. You have a lot of different subject matter, but it seems like you really have a style, maybe two styles. Sometimes you have stuff with a heavy, organic kind of element as the background: flowers or trees or something. But for the most part, it is one thing. And I want to know, do you get locked into that? Do you only get jobs that look super pop-y in the background? And is that a problem? It sounds like maybe you are finding a sort of mixed bag helped you guys accelerate your business growth quickly because people wanted what you have, but now you feel a little bit stuck? What is your vision of what a healthy mix looks like? Does it mean you have four or five go-to styles within the same? They have connections but this one is organic and this one is our kind of pop-y thing? And do you find two or three others? Do you think it’s ideal, or do you think you eventually move away from this, and if I talk to you in ten years your look would be totally different?”
FA: “I think we’re still figuring that out, and it’s part of the excitement; it’s a little bit uncharted territory. But I definitely think, as Michelle has said, certain elements we want to carry through. We just want to figure out how we can be a little bit more flexible, particularly with our backgrounds, I think.”
MN: “Yes, and I think something which lets us stick with our style and try new things, because I do think for me the general umbrella we’re under is the work I like most and gravitate toward, for sure. And I think we probably see ourselves in some ways sticking to that, while also trying new things along the way. But even a recent shoot we did for an editorial, with something as small as switching up our lighting, it still has a distinct look. If you saw it, I think you would know it’s ours. Playing with a slightly different lighting style, playing with using a velvet curtain in the background that’s not exactly a vibrant color, things like that help us still play with color and the way that we like to light things, but changing some elements so it feels fresh.
“One thing we talked about is there are some really amazing photographers who I feel were big in fashion in the ’90s, and the style kind of changed. The ’90s I feel, like in the early 2000s, there was a colorful pop-y kind of wild fashion photography world, and there are parts of it now that look really outdated for one reason or another, and it feels like it’s hard for those photographers to evolve and keep up with what’s happening. We just think about how to keep things fresh and different, even as we stay along a similar trajectory of what excites us but also how to make sure we don’t fall in to repeating the same job over and over.”
FA: “But I think some of that comes down to expanding our resources. We are trying to find a larger studio space right now to build out our studio sets, and we are investing in lenses that can handle lower light, which is going to open up some different creative options before we just didn’t have access to. Part of it is expanding our equipment and our resources, and the other part is exploring what is inspiring us right now.”
DB: (Joking)” So you had to shoot this pop-y middle of the day because your lenses sucked?”
(Laughing)
FA: “Not necessarily. But it does prevent us from doing 1.2 aperture and lighting with a LED flashlights, which is something that we’re interested in playing with. So, yes and no!”
(Laughing)
Listen to the full episode below.
See more of Tropico Photo here
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